Thursday, September 8, 2011

10 Taboo Crunchy Subjects- Read At Your Own Peril


You grow up the day you have your first real laugh, at yourself. ~Ethel Barrymore


So, you are a new soon to be mom?! Congrats! But let me give you a few pointers. The natural community is wonderful. But there are a few things you might want to avoid bringing up. Tread softly, there are a lot more hate inspiring subjects than just religion and politics. You would be amazed how angry the peaceful, cloth diapering, attachment crowd can be.

1. Santa-
I know- I was shocked too! How can anybody really hate Santa?! Well, it's not that they hate Santa, it's more that they hate "lying to their kids". I have even heard him referred to as "Satan"- cute letter inversion, wouldn't you say? They both wear red, they both sneak in your house, you don't want to sit on either of their laps.....the similarities are just endless.

2. Never ever ever ever in a million years mutter the phrase: "Joey is 17 months old and hates being rear facing, I am going to turn around his car seat." -
You will feel like you just got in a verbal car accident. I'm betting five minutes max before the phrase "
Broken leg, cast it. Broken neck, casket. " is spoken. TWO YEARS OLD PEOPLE! Be forewarned.

3. Spanking-
This one is just too fresh for me. Needless to say, I was spanked a few times and I in fact DID NOT turn out OK. This is probably obvious. Why else would I commit blog suicide by writing this list? Something must have been shaken loose.

4. Circumcision-
You would be surprised how violent people who protect the foreskin sound when this word is mentioned in a positive light. Excuse me, genital mutilation. (I realize there is nothing funny about chopping off foreskin. But though I oppose the practice, I have seen people seriously considering doing it, because the rhetoric from both sides is so heated, they think everybody is lying. Food for thought.)

5. Sharing-
This one threw me. Some people make their kids share. Some don't. They are both SURE they are right. You might as well just say, "My favorite book is Mao's little red one" and then stand back. You may be called a communist. Just sayin'.

6. "I am considering an induction because I am feeling so uncomfortable" is the absolute last thing you should ever say to anybody who has ever taken a natural childbirth class.-
I admit, I still can't laugh at this one. I will HAVE to say something unasked for and unappreciated. Consider yourself warned.

7. Vaccines-
"But if they immunize, why do you need a booster?!" Also known as poison, monkey blood, aborted fetus parts, mercury, and egg yolks. If you don't know what I am talking about, just mention on a mothering.com forum that you are planning on vaccinating. Then stand back.

8. "I can't afford organic."-
Never say this either. If you really loved your kids you would sell crack to afford organic. Or grow it in your apartment window. Don't you care about them!?

9. Never tell somebody not to smoke pot when pregnant.-
I did a post on this once. Boy were people ticked. By the way, it is not a drug- it's a freaking HERB. I still refuse to change my mind on this one though. Don't do it!

10. Breastfeeding, bottle feeding, working mothers, stay at home mothers, swaddling, boycotting, chemicals in diapers, fluoride, microwaves, weaning.....are a few more to round out your list of subjects to avoid with your best crunchy friend.


"When people are laughing, they're generally not killing one another."
Alan Alda

(In case you missed it, I am trying to poke fun at our community, even though most of these subjects are ones that I feel strongly about too. Sadly, we push people away sometimes with our pet angry passions. You can still tell me how much you hate me in the comments, below. If not, remember, sometimes we take ourselves a little too seriously. Except for me, of course.)

76 comments:

Rachel said...

You forgot sleep training... ;P

Mama Birth said...

Or did I?! I don't want to be strung up!

lisa said...

what was #7?

MumblingMidget said...

I got pushed away all because I choose to vaccinate. I got tired of being called a horrible mom, being told I am poisoning my kids, and even being told by one mom she hopes my kids die so they no longer have to suffer from what I am doing to them. Like all moms I did my research and my husband and I made a decision that is best for OUR family but that isn't good enough. It has to be all or nothing in this community I am finding out which truly is sad because so many moms (and dads) want a place they can turn to without worrying about being bashed or told they are not doing the right thing for their kids. I know just by saying this I am going to have people in arms but that's ok.
My kids are healthy and happy. Breastfed, intact, cloth diapered, baby weared, healthy eating happy kids that never once cried it out...

Kristi said...

MumblingMidget I'll be your friend!
This is so true! I was so excited to explore the natural birth community after I had a natural birth. Then I slowly started to realize how much I don't belong. I gave birth in a hospital. Man...okay, well I still cloth diaper and breastfeed. If I have a boy I will NOT circumcise him. But...I never got the hang of babywearing. Sigh. The real kicker. I choose to vaccinate my daughter. Boy do I suck. Can't be friends with the "mainstreamers" b/c they all assume I think I am better than they are and I can't be friends with the crunchy crowd b/c I am not "educated" enough for choosing certain things-like vaccinating my daughter.

This is pretty funny though, but at the same time, it's not. KWIM? These things have left me feeling like I belong nowhere.

Caitie said...

Kristi-I am glad to have a mama out there like me! I have to have a hospital birth because I have a clotting disorder and I can bleed out really fast. I want to birth at home but my kids need a mom more than I need a home birth.
I hate how these communities are an all or nothing. And I have been yelled at for even saying that. So I am forever grateful to find another mom out there who doesn't mind not following every rule but knows that her kid is happy and healthy and that is all that matters.
This may post as another name, I completely forgot I had a profile set up on this account. Oops :)

Kathryn said...

I am like a lot of you. I think there really are a lot of us. The people with agendas always seem far more vocal.

I have given birth in a hospital (cesarean and vaginal) and at home. We vaccinate. Both of our daughters were forward facing before two. I have formula fed and used disposable diapers. I don't buy organic. But then I also breastfeed (my daughter finally weaned at nearly 3!), cloth diaper, co-sleep, wear my baby and don't circumcise or sleep train.

The experiences with each child (I have 4, three living) have been different. You do different things with each kid. You learn and change your mind. Parenting is certainly not one size fits all or a "my way or the highway" kind of deal. We do our best with each issue and each child.

There are a couple subjects that I am passionate about, sure, but everyone is different. Not everyone is me, nor should they be, so I usually just bite my tongue. ;)

Ballerina Baller said...

@mumbling midget. i'll be your friend too! i vax'd one kid but not the second but i do understand researching and making the best choice for YOUR family, not mine. that is the cool thing about being moms, we get to make our own choices and people who do not respect or understand that, suck.

the only thing i would add would be Child care. I refuse to go back to work till my son is no longer breastfeeding full time and i get a load from my mom and other friends about "socializing" my kids. umm... i'm on a playdate where my kids are playing happily with your kids and you tell me they aren't being "socialized?" now i'm confused.

Alicia C. said...

Oh! What about potty "training"? Just the phrase can bring out the death threats! Vaccinating is another no-no. Oh, and co-sleeping!

LOL - it is funny how many people who are "peaceful" and "loving" can get so aggravated and nasty over certain subjects. It's one thing to give advice or try to help others through education. It's another to scare them out of the community by being so adamant!

GREAT POST!

buterflysbeauty said...

I agree co-sleeping or bed-sharing can be touchy. As is homeschooling, potty learning, EC (Elimination Communication), oy the list goes on. I really wish that people would just educate themselves then ACCEPT others for what they choose is right for their families. While I do not personally believe in vaccinating, I can understand the hard choice between being able to work and send the kids to public school and not having enough money for food/shelter. I do not and will never understand why it is ok to push people away just because they do not follow your school of thought. Shouldn't we teach our children that tolerance of others is best?

dumbsainthood said...

really and truly a great post. Add to #10 diapering in general (I've cloth diapers exclusively 6 kids and was given crap for not doing EC), starting solids (really ANY food issue can be taboo), schooling and the big one I encounter lately : Gender identifying

Krista Eger said...

Honestly, you're the only blog I can even stand to read anymore. I got so sick of all the negativity. People make different choices. You'll have very little luck trying to talk someone out of a parenting choice ESPECIALLY if you attack someone. Because then they will defend it before even listening to your side. Even when I talk to my friends, although I'm a natural/home birth advocate, I never ever ever tell someone that that is what they should do. Even though I think the epidural is harmful to the baby because they're missing out on the wonderful hormones I still never ever tell someone else that they shouldn't get one. I do inform people about inductions though. But if they choose to get one, I don't yell at them or shun them. Even parenting styles I don't agree with. The moment I get judgmental is the same moment I end up doing the same thing. I'm getting really sick of the natural parenting community for these very reasons. For one, my son is circumcised....do I think it was a good choice? No I don't. I was working at the hospital at the time, I'd only heard the word doula once, I had no idea that people were even against circumcision. I didn't think about the negative side, no one was there to point it out. But the natural parenting community would freak out at me. I can't take it back so I'd rather not be attacked for a stupid decision I made without knowing! So I stopped following everyone on facebook. I've had enough. I would rather find a non judgmental community that just gives helpful peaceful parenting tips.

Dr. Travis Robertson said...

Yeah Lisa is right...there is no number seven. :) Our world isn't as black and white as we would like to assume. It really is more gray. And we should all be given the opportunity to choose without being belittled, threatened or insulted, even if we disagree with each other.

Rae said...

Its so nice to read comments from other 'half-way' moms! I homebirthed (and will continue to do so with future children). We cloth diapered for 4 months - the stinker has 'slept through the night' since she was two weeks old - we 'had' to switch to non-resuable diapers because she devoloped a HORRID diaper rash, from the combo of sleeping and cloth diapers...we baby wear (combo of an awesome hiking backpack my SIL got us, and a pouch sling), I breastfed her til 17 months (self weaned), and we started her off on canned baby foods, and then after one month of the nasty crap, we changed our minds and started giving her bits of fruit and whatever else WE were eating. She liked it much better, and has wonderful eating habits. OOO and we vaccinated her, but on our own schedule, and we picked the ones we wanted.

Gates Family said...

From a mama who isn't all the way crunchy I have to say that I've been blessed with a nearby community of natural mama's who all make decisions based on informed research. There is a mix of breastfeeding, cloth diapering, baby-wearing, vaccinating, etc, and nobody judges anyone for what they do. I find it horribly sad that many mama's who don't identify completely with one way or the other aren't supported. I will say you can find support in other places--for example, our family chiropractor is extremely pro-natural and has been a great source of information but he doesn't condemn you if you choose something he feels strongly about. I am very opinionated but I know how I feel when I'm judged for my childbearing and childrearing decisions(particularly by those who think it's crazy to birth at home) so I do my best to not do the same. Thank you Mama Birth for yet another blog post that is spot on!

Tori said...

what about... quiverfull OR not. ;) That's a gander getter-upper! hehehe

LOVE your blog.

Mama Birth said...

Thanks for all your comments- though some of them make me very sad! I don't really think you should feel guilty for choosing what is best for your family- or feel like you owe anybody an explaination. I don't do all of these (and others I didn't mention) but don't care at all what others think about it. SO THERE! HA!

baby foot fluff said...

Don't forget homebirthing or c/s. you might just be "uninformed, ignorant, and uneducated" if you chose not to birth your child in a tub of human soup. And placenta eating.LOL

The Smiths said...

This post makes me sad. Over the years I've headed more and more towards the crunchy side. Where I stop is that although I co-sleep, breastfed til two, baby-wear, and love my daughter to pieces, I think she needs to be taught and trained in many areas and it is my job to do that, but anyway. This post makes me wonder how people see me. I know I put out shock waves in my little conservative community of church friends when I had a successful home birth and the midwife didn't make it! But I wonder if people see me as a judgmental hippie and avoid me (or certain subjects). I really don't need something else to worry about and will focus on trying to be kind and open and keep opinions to myself--as much as I can stand it.

MeesterMama said...

This is so true! Sadly. Our community is very judgemental.

Kate said...

I think us women perpetuate this diviseness by identifying ourselves as XYZ as if that defines us. We wear our do's and don'ts like a badge and then form cliques like we are still in high school. Blah! I refuse to list myself in this way anymore. I am not a scorecard.

Dreamer13 said...

I agree with Kate. Let's not put ourselves in one "camp" or the other. Good grief get over it!! Let's just do what we want of each and let other people do what they want!! It doesn't HAVE to be one way or the highway. and the fact that some people feel it is makes me sad. For that reason I actually didn't find this post all that funny - I see where you are going with it - but it's also helping define the divide. "us" and "them" etc. :'(

Damaged Goods said...

You also shouldn't mention that perhaps they are a bit sexist against the fathers in their life. You comment will likely get deleted (heaven forbid someone think about what you say) But a lot of crunchy moms treat their men like they were only sperm doners and shouldn't be allowed to have opinions.

I got deleted today for mentioning that a mother shouldn't try to stop her e from having an overnight visit with there 18 month daughter. that "she was a piece of him too". I was told that "sorry, but it's better not to have a father at all than to have one who is selfish and does not have a baby's best interests at heart but sees children just like property to divide up in a divorce :( " Women act like the guy was abusive or something, he just wants some time with his kid. Ugh

Mama D. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mama D. said...

I think a lot of mamas in our community are used to having to be so defensive of their choices, (from the mainstream community) that they become rigid and over pushy. Sometimes their passion makes them unaware that they are being hurtful to others. Of course some people are just mean and arrogant.

I thought I was as crunchy as it gets: I had a water birth, breastfeed, cloth diaper/EC, my daughter eats 100% organic on baby led weaning, she's not vax'd, I am an intactivist, I don't do santa/easter bunny/tooth fairy, believe in home schooling and that a child under 3 should always bei with a parent or close family member and I don't believe in punishment but instead natural consequences & communication. When my daughter was born with a tongue and lip tie, I wanted to have it cut. I waned her to be able to breast feed, not have speech issues or a gap between her front teeth. The LLL leader I called for support mentioned her daughter had those issues and she left her "intact" and that she was 18months and doing well. I felt defeated... I was looking for support and she had planted a seed in me that I was selfishly harming my daughter. But in the end I knew that my daughter's case was serious and she needed the procedures. It wasn't easy but it made me realize how everyone must make choices that nourish the happiness and well being of their family! Now I try to be as gentle as possible and educate but never push or judge.

Mama Birth said...

@ Dreamer-
That was so not my intent, (division) and I hope that people saw that. It was in fact, quite the opposite, to with humor (hopefully) point out to the choir that sometimes we are quite silly. You won't find me listing my crunchy accomplishments- they don't define who I am as a person. They change with each child and with what works and what doesn't. Never in a million years do I think we should be choosing our friends based on how much they fit how we think everybody else should be. I think, in all honesty, that this is mostly a virtual world problem, popping up on anon internet sites more than in real life. No- we are not in high school. We get to be friends with people now even if they dress different and like different music or raise their kids different than us. I hate what I see in this community- mothers often discounting the wisdom of others because they do something we think they shouldn't.

Natty Perez said...

Even though we don't vax, do child lead weaning & solids, advocate for natural birth,co-sleep, baby wear, plant our own garden, use cloth diapers (I even got an account with a very well known CD company so that I could get my friends the retailer prices) homeschool, etc... I still get told that my kids should be taken from me for "mutilating" their (the boys) genitals. I am told that I am ignorant & uneducated. But we agree on every other level :P

I've also had ppl. try to use the bible on me because they know that my husband & are believers & considered "born again". I most get garbage from the "community" for circing & for being a Christian. Both things make me uneducated & ignorant not to mention a down right abuser for "mutilating" our sons & teaching them our "non sense" aka "brain washing them" to be intolerant. Mean time there is no one my kids refuse to play with, they have all types of friends & the only ones who name call are their "tolerant & educated" parents. SIGH***

BTW, I agree 100% that some ppl's (self described activists) are what push ppl. away from their agenda but they don't get it no matter how sweetly & kindly you try to explain that.

Natty Perez said...

Damaged Goods

I've noticed that too. Your so right & that's one of my biggest turn offs from the "community" men are treated like retarded, over sexed pitbulls.

My husband is such a huge part of not just my life but the life of my children. They live & die for that man even more so then me who has never ever spent one day or minute away from any of them ages 5, 3, & 1. They still choose dad over me. After they nursed they always wanted dad. They ask me for things food, diaper change, to nurse, etc... but dad comforts them, dad is fun, etc...

I can't stand how hateful towards men these women sound & I often feel awful for their men who seem like a castrated version of the pit mentioned above.

kaelee said...

I think just maybe we are all kind of nuts.....

Caitie said...

One can hope that by people reading this article and by reading these comments they realize we are all parents. We all want our kids happy and healthy. It doesn't matter if we are 10% cruncy or 100% crunchy.
You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. This community needs to learn to be more gentle, like we teach our children. Instead of telling me every vaccinated child gets autism and shoving links in my face or that I am poisoning my kid try explaining to me why you choose not to vax but hear by side to. And that goes with circumcising, baby wearing, bed sharing, co-sleeping, home schooling, disciplining, etc.

Meg said...

Amen- I believe that no one should be criticized for making choices for their family! No one can guess at what it's like to walk in another's shoes and judge them for making the decisions they did. I am newer to this "crunchy" mindset and there are some things that I embraced immediately and some things that I still have to think about and absorb. I do not regret decisions that I have made for my family because I know I did the best with what I knew when I made the choice. I can't undo it or change it. But I can move forward with what I believe now, and continue to work with God and my family to do the best we can.

Danie Nicole said...

I'm new to the whole 'natural birth' and 'attachment' crowd but I loved this post! I wish we would worry less about labels and more about just supporting each other.
My new favorite saying is, "Everyone tells you how challenging motherhood is, No one tells you that half the challenge is defending yourself."

Genevieve @The Way of the Peaceful Parent said...

Great post thanks! Gosh, fanatacism of any kind, relating to any subject is just so heavy and divisive! The backlash of all this is that those of us who are more accepting of others regardless of our strong emotions or beliefs on a subject get painted with the same brush. I find that when I'm running courses, parents really need evidence and reassurance that I'm not righteous or judgmental, any hint of being alternative can be threatening, I try to avoid it by keeping the focus on the relationship, rather than defining this model of parenting by the things we do/don't do.

None of us are open to learn from those who we feel judged by. I can be very passionate and have a lot of strong feelings about my version of what children need, but it's just not nice or constructive to vent at others. Brave and important post! Btw, I still don't get what "crunchy" really means or where it came from?? I've asked this question on a couple of fb pages that have crunchy as part of the name and haven't been answered, is it taboo to even ask? Genevieve

Genevieve @The Way of the Peaceful Parent said...

Great post thanks! Gosh, fanatacism of any kind, relating to any subject is just so heavy and divisive! The backlash of all this is that those of us who are more accepting of others regardless of our strong emotions or beliefs on a subject get painted with the same brush. I find that when I'm running courses, parents really need evidence and reassurance that I'm not righteous or judgmental, any hint of being alternative can be threatening, I try to avoid it by keeping the focus on the relationship, rather than defining this model of parenting by the things we do/don't do.

None of us are open to learn from those who we feel judged by. I can be very passionate and have a lot of strong feelings about my version of what children need, but it's just not nice or constructive to vent at others. Brave and important post! Btw, I still don't get what "crunchy" really means or where it came from?? I've asked this question on a couple of fb pages that have crunchy as part of the name and haven't been answered, is it taboo to even ask?

Btw I am a fully committed attachment parenting parent and have been for 14 years, so like yourself, I don't disagree with these arguments, just the divided camp that's all too common, we're all doing our best. Genevieve

Lani said...

Hee hee. I love how brave you are. :-)

Kellan said...

I think your post just brought tons of people together, and created a bond between parents, whether crunchy or not.

What is the definition of crunchy, anyway...natural?

I've only just joined the doing things more naturally crowd, so I haven't had much personal experience with most of this...but I know from previous experiences how judgmental people can be - especially the very people haranguing everyone else for judging them.

I proudly have my kids in disposables - the insanity and cost of cloth diapering just isn't for me. I don't do poop if I can get away with it. I also refuse to wake my daughter up just to change her diaper. I've just decided no more vaxing, so as long as it's still ok to do while on government help, I won't be vaxing my daughter anymore. As soon as I can find a way of getting around, I'm going to start doing the organic bit - although that might have to wait til I have my own place. I co-sleep (as in daughter sleeps in bed with me). I breastfeed. I don't babywear, but that's not so much choice as can't find an affordable sling or similar type thing to safely ensconce baby in.

Mama Birth, this is a wonderful post! Thanks for being brave enough to write it!!!

Kellan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kellan said...

Oh, I also circumsized my son - and plan on doing so again, simply because of what happened with my first: his foreskin got stuck around the head of his penis, and swelled up. He couldn't pee without it being intensely painful, and I ended up in the ER with a screaming baby - NOT FUN! I didn't know at the time that the remedy for that is quite simple. I do know I was scared, confused, and hurting for my son, so I refuse to even think of going through that again. *shudders*

Crunchy_Conservative said...

I think the term "crunchy" comes from families being labeled as crunchy granola hippies (since we all subsist on granola, you know).

I am thankful to have a fairly nurturing, accepting community around me. Like another poster, I feel like I am most judged simply for being a Christian. I find that pretty sad, especially when it comes from people who claim to be so open-minded and tolerant.

My mantra is "We are all doing the best we can." I'm not a perfect mom. Frankly, I'm not convinced that following the 10 Divine Laws of Crunchy Parenting would make me a "perfect" mom.

I also like the quote "Know better, do better." Why beat yourself up for doing something differently if you didn't know any better before? You can't change the past. When I see something I want to change, I have the choice to use my energy to abuse myself or to can use it to change. I want to give myself as much love and compassion as I would give my children.

Jennifer said...

Great post and awesome comments! I think we've all had some pent up frustration! The only community I've been part of this go around is Kellymom and if you've ever glanced at the forum site, you couldn't miss the big warning at the top of every page. While I understand Kelly's motivation for that, I do think you lose something when you make a whole series of topics taboo for discussion. I've been flagged there for contemplating night weaning before age one, circumcising my DS, vaccinating, working FT outside the home, feeding solids a week before 6m, you name it. I've learned what not to say over there and as such, I do not participate fully. It's sad. Whenever discussion is stifled, either implicitly or explicitly, you lose something, and a large portion of the community ends up being ignorant of the WHYs of their decisions. They end up blindly following which is just as bad as the opposite side of the spectrum

Jenn said...

Homeschooling?

Karen Joy said...

Thank you, Mama Birth, for blogging my thoughts. I have been disheartened lately, by the increasing level of both fear and inflexible vociferousness in the supposedly touchy-feely natural-living/crunchy community.

From a green(ish), clean-eating (though not 100% organic), baby-wearing, exclusively breastfeeding, spanking, homeschooling, sharing, anti-vax, natural (hospital) birthing mother of five (three of whom are circumcised boys).

Gombojav Tribe said...

Excellent! Came over thanks to Karen at Only Sometimes Clever! Great post! When I became a childbirth educator and doula I quickly learned that there are some subjects not to be brought up in professional meetings or in some moms groups. Just don't go there. You'll totally feel like you are sitting at the wrong lunch table in junior high again!

Amber A said...

this hit home with me! I am still on my "educational" journey. I have 2 circ'd boys and 1 not. my last son we decided not to circ because someone talked to us, gave us info and then let us review and chose, not bash us. I dont' fit in anywhere, I am the crunchiest person at my church, I get called hippie by everyone, even family. But to the real crunchy people I am no where close to perfect. I started to give my "run down" but you know that doesn't matter. I love my kids more than life, I have 7 of them and hope for more. yes I am crazy for that I also am trying to raise my kids to love people even if we don't agree with how they choose to live their life or the things they choose for their family. the Bible verse we are working on right now is Ephesians 4:32 "And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."

Kellan said...

@Amber A...7 Kids?! You ARE out of your mind! Lol, but you sound like you're doing the best you can, so hey, rock on. The verse you quoted...that's right out of the KJV, & just wanted to say I noticed & kudos to you for it. I'm also a Christian & I use the KJV as well. Like you, I'm still learning about all this apparently "crunchy" stuff - after all, I need to get up to speed on what kind of granola I should be eating. Kidding!

Andygirl said...

The whole anti-science slant of the natural birth community is appalling, IMO. They talk and talk about evidence-based care, yet refuse to accept the evidence regarding unlicensed midwives, vaccination, homeopathy, chiropractic and all the other woo. There's a happy medium with regard to this stuff, and I wouldn't allow anyone to make me feel bad about my choices as a parent. We're all just doing the best we can here, and really need to give each other a break.

Andygirl said...

The consequences of not vaccinating are beginning to show up in stories like this: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CA_VACCINE_EXEMPTIONS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Mama Birth said...

@Andy girl-
I get what you are saying- but do you realize how HOW you said it is insulting?
If you want everybody to give you a break and think we are all "doing the best we can"--maybe you shouldn't call stuff that is important to them (ie- people different than you) "appalling" or "woo".
I post science based stuff all the time- and- FYI- my hubby is a Chiropractor and a dang good one. My kids are not vaccinated. I had an unassisted birth and a birth with a CPM. There are many different reasons why people choose what they choose- science is one of them but all of those choices are deeply emotional, spiritual, intuitive and more. And you can often find studies to support either side, if you want to.

cb8a8ee6-f2d7-11e0-a15d-000bcdcb5194 said...

My standards just decay w/ each child. I let the first 2 wean themselves at age 3. I suddenly weaned the 3rd at age 1, and I'll wean the 4th the day she turns 1 so I can schedule breast implants! I circumcised 2 boys but not 1. There is a delicate balance between a mother's sanity and doing what's best for the baby. I've become far less judgmental the longer I've been a mother and the more I've failed (they seem to go together). Hey, if someone wants a planned c/s and a tummy tuck at the same time, who cares? If we have authority over anything in life we have authority over our own bodies and the children they produce.

morgan said...

Lol @ #9. I read that post, as well as all the comments.

Ktietje85 said...

I have three kids -- almost 4, 2, and 3 months.I got lectured on my blog the other day that I am "not really AP" by a mom who has one 18-mo-old because I use timeouts sometimes. I had to laugh. Really?? I do happen to co-sleep, not vaccinate, birth at home, and generally consider my kids' individual needs as top priority when making choices for them (that is the true definition of AP), but because they have been put in time out, I'm out of the club?? Ha.

I agree about not telling people their deeply-held beliefs are "woo" -- that is such an offensive term! It automatically shuts down any dialogue.

Ktietje85 said...

I have three kids -- almost 4, 2, and 3 months.I got lectured on my blog the other day that I am "not really AP" by a mom who has one 18-mo-old because I use timeouts sometimes. I had to laugh. Really?? I do happen to co-sleep, not vaccinate, birth at home, and generally consider my kids' individual needs as top priority when making choices for them (that is the true definition of AP), but because they have been put in time out, I'm out of the club?? Ha.

I agree about not telling people their deeply-held beliefs are "woo" -- that is such an offensive term! It automatically shuts down any dialogue.

Metis said...

Do I dare mention TV? *dun dun dun*

Faith Noel Pierce said...

Ugh. Can totally relate. I am a very southern styled mama who enjoys being in natural birth communities. My southern parenting ways often get me boo'd in forums and groups:( Natural mamas can be SO MEAN if you don;t agree 100% with all of their ideals.

magadociousrex said...

This... omg this..post, i love you for it.


I'm a pariah in both mainstream and crunchy circles. Mainstream because I cloth diaper, breastfed my son until he self weaned this week due to me being pregnant with #2. *BAWLS* , we eat organic food, garden, etc...

ANd YET, I'm a pariah on the crunchy side because I vaccinate, can't babywear because of my back (arthritis in the lower disks) and a few other things.....


It works for our family... not for everyone's but for us? its awesome. WHy can't people get that by living MY life, i'm not judging theirs?

trish said...

Funny that I'm just seeing this now. When I had my son, I thought I'd be a crunchy parent, and assumed that if I didn't do EVERYTHING, that that would be okay. Well, it turns out that even if you cloth diaper, breastfeed, have a natural birth, stay home with your baby, wear your baby, make all their food, etc, if you do ONE thing that the natural parenting community doesn't agree with, you'll get raked over the coals, and forget about respect my decisions and I'll respect yours, because that definitely ain't happening. It hasn't happened to me, but I've seen it happen (in particular with circumcision) and the vitriol was appalling. It's a bummer because I don't feel like I have an online community I can turn to with questions. I have to keep my differences a secret or risk being bashed. :(

Kimberly said...

Great post and so true. AP moms can be one of the most snotty, holier than thou judgy groups of women there is. My husband and I were semi-AP, and I learned quickly to stop having any discussion with people about how I raise my child. I had a very happy baby who rarely cried and was always laughing. We obviously did right by her. She is now nine and is very well-adjusted and happy still.

I think the real key is to not worry if you fit into a certain community. Just do things your way and be who you are. In any community there will always be a contingent of people who don't accept you because they are the "true" hard core ones, and you aren't and therefore do not fit into their group. It really is like a pissing contest. Getting caught up in the drama and judginess just brought me unhappiness. So, I bowed out. I still read forums and what not, but stopped posting, etc... I just decided to be me and shun any label. It worked. I was much happier after that.

Now, granted, I do have my issues in that I hate strollers (we both wore baby), early solids, people who take their kids out of boosters too early, etc. But I don't call people out on it. I just seethe inside and let people parent in peace.

Lindsey said...

I think you should add don't bring up this subject if you don't plan on changing your mind or think you're right every time! I am an open minded person and appreciate getting advice from others. I guess if someone chose to call me a bad mom for vaccinating rather than maybe refer me to a book i might find useful, ya, i'd be pissed, but i don't think i'd ever go home crying just because someone told me i wasn't a good mom because of this or that. i have tougher skin than that and am surprised other people are so sensitive about that stuff.

i had no idea the crunchy community had opinions about staying at home vs working! i work full time, vaccinate, only half my food is organic, i birthed in a hospital (couldn't afford a midwife), and i cric'd my son (7 years ago though, before there was a strong argument against it). I also use disposable diapers because i use a laundromat and have a hard enough time getting just my clothes washed each week. i would love to get heat from someone about these choices.

gfmommy.com said...

HAHAHAHA! I LOVE IT!! I have so had all those conversations! I have been told that I am killing my child by having her vaccinated, I had an all natural hospital birth (which apparently makes me a terrible mom because I didn't do it at home), I eat mostly whole and natural foods but can't afford organic (my husband is a poor teacher who is getting a masters and I am a stay at home mom), I do use cloth diaper, and I do spank when all else fails (I guess my kids will need a therapist later in life).

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Unknown said...

Great post :) I am new to motherhood and have quickly learned that each and every mother's experiences are completely different and no one will ever agree 100%. Therefore, we must never judge...most mamas do what's best for THEIR family.

Amanda said...

I couldn't agree more. There does seem to be a lot of judgement and criticizing yet these do not turn people to your way of thinking, just the opposite, in fact.

Gwen said...

I'm with a few others--I had a natural birth, with a midwife who works for an OB at the hosiptal--that fact that the midwife works for an Ob "makes" her a "bad" midwife AND it was at a freakin hospital. It doesn't matter that I had the natural birth I wanted, nursed right away, had a healthy baby with a midwife. A home birth would be great but the fact is I live in a small town with very limited resources, a hospital was my best option considering the other was a home birth with NO midwife...we cloth diaper, eat natural whole foods, organic when we can, never cio and have a healthy happy advanced baby--but those things don't matter since I started out all wrong.

Maybe we should start a new community of the halfsies--the moms who only do it half way--cloth but bottle, breastfed but sposies, natural births at hospitals since we aren't accepted by the "REAL" natural moms nor by the "Bad" mainstream moms.

Kelly said...

This is AWESOME! Truly, you ROCK!

Heidi =) said...

I hate you Thiiiiiiiiiiis much.

Heidi =) said...

Haha! Just kidding, thanks for this fun post, it made my day!

Emily Jo said...

Everyone already wrote my thoughts! I consider myself "oatmeal" instead of "granola." You know, still whole grain and all, but a little softer. :) In my family, we strive for balance.

Deborah Nicole said...

Gwen - love the idea...let's start our own halfsies community :) Emily Jo - love the term oatmeal! I'm oatmeal too :)

Wolf_mommy said...

Lol: blog suicide.

Gwen said...

I would look into starting a facebook page for the support we really need--The Halfsies--the moms who do it half way and have a zero bashing policy/ no douchebaggery--just don't know how likely it would be to get members and moms who are able to refrain themselves to mature responses and from bashing.

Anonymous said...

I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape because of OTHER people's decisions??? Like MumblingMidget said- who CARES if you chose to vaccinate, that decision doesn't effect my child at ALL...the decisions I've made as a parent are me weighing the pros and cons of each and making what I think is the best call for MY child... I just hope everyone would do the same... the person who should be shunned is the person who makes decisions because everyone else is doing it. educate yourself, do whats best for your family, and go from there! for pete's sakes! we need to be supporting each other in this painstakingly thankless job they call motherhood!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the post - It's great to be able to poke fun at ourselves once in a while. :) As others have said, I often feel I don't fit in, while crunchy at heart. I had a c-section, never labored. And I always feel the need to justify it. (Even now, I want to - Footling breech, spontaneous rupture of membranes. Although I was scheduled for later that week - bicornate uterus made me a poor candidate for a version)
And I vaccinate. But my daughter is happy, healthy, cloth diapered, attached, etc. I don't - nor will I ever - spank, I try not to yell, and I love to bedshare with her. I think the community needs to be less all or nothing, and more "we all do the best we can for our families, let's all just get along"

Jodi Friesen said...

The only really crunchy parent I know in real life has scared me of the whole crunchy community because of exactly this. It's hard to actually talk to a parent who is on their soapbox so often.

So the list is funny, but it's also sad because it's true.

Beatriz Collado said...

You are hilarious!! I love your blog:)

HollyS said...

I love that so many have commented that they feel like they are forced to choose! I am also in the middle of the road. I will vaccinate my kids and I did circ my son, I cosleep and try to baby wear, but son doesn't like it, so he gets carried a lot! I will breastfeed as long as possible (he is only 8 months now) and I had a hospital birth with induction but that was before I had learned a whole lot. I still won't have a kid at home, but only because I don't want to clean it up! It is so nice to see the diverse group on here, they care about their kids and that is what matters!

Anonymous said...

Is there some kind of community for "halfsies"? I have never felt like my philosophy clicked with so many people before. Too mainstream to be crunchy, too crunchy to be mainstream. Or just, willing to believe that the vast majority of parents make informed choices based on what works best for their families, and they are not worth fighting over. I would love to be part of an online community of people like you.

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